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Re: PC: Youngstown, E&A Branch, and P&LE

Pretty interesting.  Now maybe that's why I used to see those P&LE U28B 
units on what appeared to be coal trains back in the last few years of the 
NYC passing through on the Pennsylvania Division (Fallbrook Division).  This 
line runs ('ran' as it has been severed between Wellsboro JCT. PA and Avis 
PA) from the NYC mainline at Lyons NY to Newberry Junction in Williamsport 
PA.  I wonder if some of that Benson Mine traffic, which came off the 
Adirondack Division up north of Utica NY, may have been travelling southward 
through Corning, then west out of Williamsport on the Bald Eagle PRR branch 
down to Tyrone and west on the PRR main?  The same thing happened after PC, 
where several times P&LE units made it through here.  I understand that PC 
painted and leased a few of their U28Bs for a while, so maybe in that time 
frame they were just in the general loco pool.  But it is interesting to see 
how large a network of trains they were running then as opposed to now, what 
with all the lines that have been long since destroyed, torn up or 
Jim Kosty
Corning NY

>From: Jerry Jordak <jer -AT- smellycat.com>
>Reply-To: penn-central -AT- smellycat.com
>To: Penn Central Mailing List <penn-central -AT- smellycat.com>
>Subject: PC: Youngstown, E&A Branch, and P&LE
>Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:11:46 -0400
>Time to put on the thinking caps and turn on your wayback machines...
>I was doing some research last night through my copy of my 1969 PC Through 
>Freight Schedules book. Specifically, I was looking for all train traffic 
>that would have used the ex-PRR E&A Branch between Rochester, PA, and 
>Youngstown, OH. (Today this trackage is part of Norfolk Southern's 
>Youngstown Line.)
>In checking the origin/destination listings, I found a number of trains 
>which showed as originating and terminating in Youngstown. However, to my 
>surprise, most of them used Gateway Yard, which was on the Pittsburgh & 
>Lake Erie, as opposed to Hazelton Yard, which was the main PRR yard in 
>Specificially, the only train I could find that originated at Hazelton was 
>YA-1, which worked the ex-PRR PY&A Branch from Youngstown and Niles to 
>Ashtabula. The following trains, which ran over the E&A Branch, worked at 
>Hazelton enroute:
>SC-3 New Castle-Canton
>SC-4 Canton-New Castle
>PY-3 Conway-Ashtabula
>PY-4 Ashtabula-Conway
>CNC-1 New Castle-Cleveland
>CNC-2 Cleveland-New Castle
>On the other hand, the following trains originated or terminated at Gateway 
>BP-1 Benson Mines-Youngstown
>CDB-4 Elkhart-Youngstown
>GP-3 Youngstown-Newell
>PW-4 Newell-Youngstown
>WM-4 Cleveland-Youngstown
>WM-6 Youngstown-Dickerson Run
>And these stopped at Gateway enroute:
>PC-1 Dickerson Run-Elkhart
>PS-10 Pittsburgh-Buffalo
>GP-1 Buffalo-Becks Run
>GC-3 Pittsburgh-Cleveland
>Now while the Pennsy Ft. Wayne line was obviously the primary mover of 
>traffic from Pittsburgh to points west, it seems that the P&LE, which was 
>controlled by Penn Central still at this point, was probably the secondary 
>main line out of Pittsburgh to the west. (I'm not including the Panhandle 
>towards Columbus in this discussion, but rather focusing on points 
>northwest, like Youngstown, Cleveland, Toledo, Chicago, Detroit, etc.) Is 
>this a valid conclusion? It seems like Penn Central was treating the P&LE 
>as just another route on its system, especially with having trains running 
>from P&LE points to far-off locations like Elkhart and Benson Mines. (I 
>believe Benson Mines is in far upstate New York, where they mined iron ore 
>for steel mills, as the schedule book mentions blocks of ore in the train' 
>In addition, I'm trying to figure out is if any other traffic used the E&A 
>Branch between New Castle and Youngstown. Besides the three pairs of trains 
>mentioned above, would there have been any other movements on that line? 
>Perhaps coal or iron ore trains? Possibly ore trains from the Bessemer & 
>Lake Erie? I seem to remember hearing that ore from the B&LE was 
>interchanged with the PRR E&P Branch at Shenango (near Greenville) and 
>moved south to New Castle and then west over the E&A to Youngstown. Was 
>this actually done?
>What I thought was interesting too was the schedule pages for trains PY-3 
>and PY-4 mention TTX (piggyback) cars operating between Conway and 
>Hazelton, and so there was probably a piggyback ramp at Hazelton. I thought 
>that was kind of neat, as it meant there was piggyback cars running over 
>the E&A Branch.
>Apologies if you have no idea what part of Penn Central system I'm talking 
>about, but I figured that since the list has been a little quiet that this 
>might start some good discussion. And, it will help me with planning 
>prototypical operations for my under-construction model railroad. :-)

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